This month (May) in a real TMFR x DnD crossover we’ll be talking about revictimization; a massive challenge to complex trauma folks in romance. If we’re victims of abuse early on, what causes the higher risk of it happening again later in life?
We’ll start with a paper on the psychological variables.
Then jump into another about the ways our WALKS can indicate prey to predators.
And finally, we’ll talk about how the voice and vocal patterns play into it.
But before all that and because I need an “on the brink of burnout” break… we’re taking a pause from the research.
I wasn’t intending to do this – I was actually going to take the week off-off - but we had such a good Wednesday discussion in the discord that I decided to hammer out a MFs Speaks show to lead us into the month.
Today I want to share with you some of the insights provided by the TMFRs community when asked what behaviors they realized had made them prey in the past, or what indicated prey TO THEM in the present. Because, as we know, abuse introjects abuser instincts into many of us.
The results were, as usual, deep, complex, nuanced, relatable, and not for the faint of heart, as people who’ve “done the work” can talk about their shadow sides with a meta oversight.
Let’s talk about what causes observable victimhood, from the mouths of folks who’ve been through it… even more heavily, from fuckers with predator instincts, themselves…
And what we can do about it to protect OURselves.
Behaviors that have led to victimization
Anger and emotional suppression. “Well, I suppose I’m very afraid of getting angry myself, and so as a result end up finding it almost impossible to be assertive for fear of uncontrollable rage.” Has this led to more dominant / aggressive personalities migrating towards you? “Oh my, yes.”
Lesson: If you can’t or won’t stand up for yourself – even when it comes from a place of fearing that you’ll go too far and become an abuser if you do - you’re easy pickins.
“I'm afraid of people getting mad at me or shutting me out or getting offended so I'm very hesitant to say when something makes me uncomfortable. I think because of this I'm avoidant, because I'm convinced I will have a miserable time talking to anyone because of this. I used to attract bullies in the past, but since then I don't know. I have a huge wall up now.”
Another similar risk? People pleasing, fawning, and self-abandoning to keep others comfortable.
“I know I tend to be a big people-pleaser, dropping whatever I’m doing for almost any ask. I’ve learned to be more assertive at work “yeah dude let me wrap this up real quick and I’ll be right over” but in my personal life I feel agonized whenever I tell someone no, like my body braces for some kind of impact. I used to attract people who took advantage of me, willingly rolling over for people I felt suspicious of but didn’t have the fortitude to stand up and speak for myself. I’ve learned to filter new connections as I get older, and now try to follow “see something say something” at work, even when it costs me opportunities. Rejection hurts, but so does being taken advantage of. I’ve learned that one costs less in the long run. “
So overall, it’s best to speak up, or others realize you won’t call out their bad behavior. Making you into a silent doormat with zero negative consequences for them to worry about.
Predation
A huge irony exists for the CPTSD crowd. We’re both commonly victims and commonly perpetrators. We’re not safe from it ourselves, but abuse teaches us to abuse others.
“You kinda know when you've got a predator somewhere inside yourself. I mean... for us it was definitely what we were supposed to be and also uh intensely encouraged. But I know that many people struggle with that internalized abuser dynamic”
In this case, the motherfucker was raised by predators who taught them to do the same, explicitly, in childhood. They were both victimized and forced into victimizing others, at the same time. That forced-skill still lives inside of them, and they have to actively manage it to avoid being a victimizer.
Another community member discussed how it was instructed in physical activities:
“I grew up playing contact sports and we were specifically trained by our coaches to target opponents who seemed weaker physically and/or emotionally. I used to talk an inordinate amount of shit and I remember feeling a sense of accomplishment when an opposing player would freak out. My teammates and coaches would praise me for my success. it’s probably not great for society to teach young men who enjoy violence to learn to target the weak and then praise them when they are successful. I think I still have those instincts/lessons inside of me…I just try not to use them unless someone deserves it
I don’t think I realized how crazy it was until I became a coach myself. Luckily, my coaching mentor wasn’t a psycho, so he helped me see how I had been trained. And there was definitely bullying on the team, too. I got bullied when I was young and small, so when I got big enough to hit other players well, I did it with abandon. I got praise from my peers and coaches the more violent I got. Contact sports in the US are so strange…”
Instutionalized predation. Which, one can imagine, sits well with particular team members who are predisposed to picking up the skill via their own abused past and present. We all know about the father beating the son, the son bullying smaller classmates – this is a perfect outlet for that pattern. And it comes with rewards.
Thus, contact sports might be deepening and promoting abuse expertise, in young people who might otherwise not learn or exemplify these socially destructive skills.
Also ironically, we have to mention that things like organized sports are supposed to be corrective or protective childhood experiences. It doesn’t sound like that’s necessarily the case for the victimized or bullying child, does it?
Predatory handbook
Moving on, this member who we heard from earlier was instructed parentally to predate and abuse kindly provided a wealth of insight and instruction on “how not to be preyed upon.” I asked if they could provide a small handbook for the rest of us.
Let’s dive into their share:
“We try not to act on it bc ethics but we definitely tend to have a radar for who has been a victim before and who might be able to become a victim again. Someone obviously not being able to set boundaries or doubting themselves a lot definitely tends to give something in my brain prey vibes. Or if someone has something that they're clearly needing so much that you kinda just know that you could use that thing to control them.
Like... we had this workmate that would really trigger our sadism, bc he a) was really expressive about both emotional and physical pain b) would often not be able to set boundaries and other coworkers would be able to make him doubt himself way too easily c) he really wanted to be told that he was doing a good job so we just had this really intense sense of wow damn that guy would make such a good victim.”
So, again, being over-eager and lacking in backbone is easily detected and considered by those who have the instinct, almost unconsciously. While we may think we’re being “good coworkers and employees,” – and feel free to extrapolate that to neighbors, partners, friends, family and community members, etc - others may see something entirely different. Weakness to be utilized.
They also said:
“So I mean this is by no means perfect, because different "predatory minds" will look for different things. Some people will literally prefer someone who is going to be a challenge, they want to break someone down who seems strong and healthy. So I'd never assume to be immune, or that it was anyone's "fault" that they got targeted. However, the majority of predators will go for someone that seems like an easy victim.
We just interviewed the other predators in the household and they agreed that that assessment is often something that happens fast and instinctively, just by scanning a room or group. I'm not sure how much one could do about that initial ping, it seems like it would take a lot of time and work to get rid of any small signs that someone might be picking up on.”
So from the drop, especially when we’re probably unaware that we’re being monitored and assessed, we can be sending subtle, almost unconscious, clues that we’re viable victims. This is something the predator mind is trained to do, instinctively, and there’s not much we can necessarily do about it... Except to have compassion for ourselves if we’re picked out of the crowd.
We do have this promising piece of information, though. All hope isn’t lost. We can be more mindful of the early phases of relationship as a point of protection:
“I think that it's more likely to influence the first interaction/early phase of relationship to make "definitely not easy victim" statements.
So showing the willingness to hold your ground, bring up disagreements and build healthy conflict management, have boundaries and actually enforce them.
Another important thing they (the other predatory household members) mentioned was awareness and that they'd bring up subtle threats early on in conversation and see how the other person reacts.
So when first meeting a new person, we really like to ask about both their fears and desires. If your intention is to be predatory, that gives you some pretty solid levers already. What would let me know that someone isn't an easy victim?”
So from the beginning, we need to speak up. We need to speak boldly. We need to pay attention to things that “sit wrong” inside of us and address them, directly. When we compromise or make concessions, we’re telling the other party that this behavior will continue.
And if they ask about fears and desires, we’re possibly giving them everything they need to know to prey on our psychology. Makes sense, it’s like opening up the doors to both your neuroses and foolish optimisms, telling them exactly how to play with your mind.
What are some other signals of easy prey?
- “sharing very sensitive information seemingly without being aware of the risk (someone telling me where they live, talking about a severe trigger that always really gets them (one reason we find personal trigger lists crazy - are you sure you want random people to know how to make you have a dissociative seizure???))
- self hate, or talking about past abuse hinting that part of you believes that you deserved it (having at least part of the person already on board with the abuse? Jackpot!)
Testing boundaries is definitely a big one. For someone less psychologically inclined that may be more like trying to touch you when you said no, or something "silly" like paying the bill when you've agreed that you'll split it. We usually just kinda wait and see if people will loosen their boundaries by themselves.
I think most basic example would be Someone tells me that they had a difficult childhood bc of uncle Bob. I'd be like oh wow that sounds bad, what happened with uncle Bob? And they'd be like I don't feel comfortable sharing that. And actually not spill the beans about uncle Bob. That would definitely make me less likely to rate them as easy prey, even though I'd still be dying to know wtf went on with uncle Bob. And if their eyes got sharper and they'd ask me instead like why exactly do you want to know about uncle Bob? I'd be like hmm, are they danger?”
Me: it sounds like sitting back and seeing how people abandon/diminish themselves is the key. like their minds will betray them at some point and when the facade cracks you learn all you need to know
“100. It's actually a really weird experience, like I can see two parallel streams of consciousness in ourselves. One emphasizing with the person, relating, wanting them to be well. And another colder one that feels like...physically/spatially behind that one? That's taking note of everything and evaluating where they'd fit in our internal idea of hierarchy, what we know about them, cataloging strengths and weaknesses... We didn’t manage to do the whole sociopathy route xD so the care and compassion is very real, too.
And yeah a lot of people are very lonely and hungry for being truly known and seen, even if that comes with a lot of risk. Which honestly, same”
So the ways that we sell ourselves out – speaking on inappropriately vulnerable or intimate topics, budging on what we will and won’t discuss, revealing our negative self-beliefs which are reflective of low self-esteem which often causes us to over-value the acceptance of others…
These are things that stick out to victimizers.
Abuser nuance
And victimizers might even come with contrasting highly empathetic parts… which can make the whole situation more confusing. If they demonstrate care and compassion AND are secretly calculating your weaknesses, it’s a much more ambivalent set of circumstances to try to sort out and process.
Plus, let’s not fail to nod at the final note here.
“a lot of people are very lonely and hungry for being truly known and seen, even if that comes with a lot of risk. Which honestly, same.”
Even potential predators are still human.
Which, again, can confuse the situation, when we connect with them on that shared level. When we see and know each other. But they’re, concurrently, learning about us for different reasons.
Prevention
How about some potential signs that you’re not a viable victim?
- “if I get the sense that they decided what they want to share and don't necessarily get fully carried away
- if they notice that I'm collecting information about them, that will make me respect them more
- if I bring up information about them at a later point and they seem to take note of that
- if they do set a boundary about not wanting to share something/ not wanting to go into details about something, they actually stick with it. (A lot of people will at first say that they don't want to talk about something, but then the urge to be heard becomes stronger than the discomfort)
I'd say that just being aware that there might be people who would want to target you could help. Not in a paranoid way, but knowing that it's a real possibility that your date might literally want to eat you.
That will make it easier for evidence in that direction to actually get through to you. People do often give hints about who they are, it's just sometimes hard to believe it, especially when the person also seems otherwise sweet.”
Again, it’s important that we mind our words and our boundaries.
And mind the interaction from a rather meta, unknowing place. Remembering, always, that the other person may seem one way – safe, caring, connective - but we don’t know what else is living within them.
So it’s important to always be aware of the universes that exist within each of us and to realize that some of them might be rather cold and cruel. And, unfortunately, be on the lookout for hints of it. If we refer back to them in the conversation, that sends a signal that we’re not such naïve snacks, after all.
Sometimes we might even see a hint of the danger within, if we look carefully:
“I know that the whole psychopath stare is a little bit of a cliché, but we have definitely noticed differences in the eyes with all of the danger people we know personally as well as ourselves. Both eyes and voice actually. Again, not in a paranoid way, there might be many explanations for why someone's eyes or voice gets colder at times. But take that as data points into consideration, if you feel like the way someone is mustering you turns weirdly cold at times, or like their voice drops into something colder and harder if they really want you to do something.”
There are some things the body can’t hide, like a cold personality part or a predatory stare that slips through during analysis.
Be on the lookout and don’t explain those behaviors away. They might be signs that you’re swimming with sharks.
Lastly, safety extends to our social worlds.
“Having a positive social network has definitely helped too. You're less likely to feel like you have to stick with shitty people when you could also be with great people.”
If you have people you can move away from the abuser, towards? You’re more likely to do so when strange behaviors are detected. Leaving them in the dust. Re-communing with safer options that will also feel better on the nervous system. Discussing and processing what happened. Finding validation and security in their support.
So, safety comes in numbers. If we’re alone (in life, not only in momentary circumstance) we’re more likely to be victims for psychological and practical reasons. Something we’ll talk about in our upcoming paper.
But until then…
From this community feedback, what can we say conclusively?
We learn to be abusers from abusers, indirectly, through modelling and survival strategies. And also, directly, through parental and institutionalized instruction.
Leaving some of us with a confusing mix of victimized and victimizing parts that have to cohabitate.
Creating a confusing mixture of kindness, care, and compassion… intermingling with more violent instincts. We often see one and use it to write-off the other, rather than realizing that both can exist within the same person.
When it comes to being spotted as a victim:
Being overly eager to please OR too avoidant signals a weak “self” that can be corrupted
Allowing boundaries to budge shows that your beliefs and words don’t matter
Revealing too much information about yourself, especially if you’ve stated that you won’t – demonstrates an easy target for coercion
People pleasing is like dangling a neverending treat bowl in front of a wolf’s face
Asserting yourself in any way? Helps. Anger, casual boundary laying such as “not right now but I’ll get back to you later,” saying it aloud when you notice they’re behaving strangely, holding your own self-standards about what you will or won’t do or say shows that you’re not rolling over and revealing to them your soft bits for the taking
And there are signs of predation to be on the lookout for. Information mining. Cold responses and stares. Not taking “no” for an answer. Deep talks that go beyond the scope of appropriate conversation for the stage of relationship. Subtle coercions that gradually change your opinion or intended behaviors.
And, of course, having a community around you helps to neutralize these threats by making you less desperate for connection that feels incorrect in your body, and offers additional support in spotting and believing the warning signs.
The act of bringing up that community, itself, could be a protective factor that deters the predator as they seek out more lonesome prey.
And, lastly, while we shouldn’t be paranoid… we benefit from always being aware that predators exist. They’re watching. And the ways we self-abandon are the strongest indicators that we’re highly consumable victims.
Thank you to the entire discord community for their feedback.
Jump into our weekly Wednesday discussion to share your own! I’d love to keep putting these democratic episodes together.
And until we speak again next time about revictimization factors after traumatic histories…
Mind your boundaries, mind your emotional spews, mind your budding relationships, nourish your broader support community, and don’t be a people pleaser, or you’ll be more likely used expressly for someone else’s pleasure….
Be safe out there as you keep dominantly (for safety) Dating in Dystopia.